The meeting commenced at 2015 hours with the following in attendance.

Name Representing
Mick Day (Chairman)
Boyd Potts (Secretary) Orpheus C.C.
Ben Lovett (Conservation Officer) Morgannwg C.C.
Andy Farrant (Geological Recorder) -
Martin Laverty Grwp Ogofeydd Garimpeiros
Ian Wilton-Jones Brynmawr C.C.
Chris Seal Chelsea S.S.
Tim Guilford Oxford University C.C.
Charles Bailey (Trustee) -
Sue Mabbett (Access Officer) South Wales C.C.
Claire McElwain Observer.
Lou Maurice Observer.

1.The Chairman:

The Chairman thanked everyone for their attendance and declared the meeting open.


Ursula Collie, Tim Long (Trustee), Rhian Hicks (Biological Recorder), Wessex C.C, Ali Garman (Survey Officer), Elsie Little (Cambrian), Chris Densham.

3.Minutes of the meeting 16th November 2002: (Previously circulated).

3(a)It was agreed unanimously: "That the minutes be accepted as a true record."

3(b)Matters arising: Item 3(b)/7(b): Balcony Pitch Ladder. Information supplied as agreed.

Item 4(b). This was actioned and a letter of thanks received.

4.Officers Reports:


Items all covered in the Agenda.


Not in attendance. It was requested that he circulate the annual accounts as soon as possible. BP to contact.

4(c)Permit Secretary:

Arrived later but report sent. Discussion on access to the cave and it was noted that some people seem tobe forgetting to sign in. Agreed we circulate a reminder of the position of the signing in book and also alter the combination. Also agreed that we place another notice inside the gate reminding people to sign in the log book - with a location map. Suggested we also put a reminder on the stile!

There was a discussion on the use of cave counters. Will be followed up by CS to ask Stuart France if he will discuss this with SM.

4(d)Conservation Officer:

BL circulated the amended version of the Cave Conservation Policy. This had been amended after discussion and comment received from AF, RH and TL.

There was discussion on thedefinition of the area. Agreed a map needed to show the operating area. Agreed we need to separate; Access - to Ogof Draenan and; Conservation - the whole catchment area.

There was also discussion on whether this was a Plan or a Policy?

Agreed that what we have at present is a Policy and what we possibly need in the future is a Plan.

i. The Conservation document was then discussed section by section. It was accepted completely up to and including page 8.

There was then a discussion on the 'Wilderness Conservation' Policy and its guidelines. Eventually it was proposed by ML and seconded by TG; 'That we keep the Wilderness Conservation Policy in the document.' Accepted by 4 for and 1 against with the rest abstaining.

ii.The section on camping was discussed and agreed.

iii. It was then proposed by ML and seconded by CB; 'That we accept the Conservation Document.'This was agreed with 2 abstentions and CS voting against.

Thanks were then given to BL for all his hard work on this document; AF was also thanked for his contribution.

4(e)Survey Secretary:

No report.

4(f)Biological Recorder:

RH was not at the meeting but sent in the comment that an important fossil specimen had been removed and she was trying to track down where it had gone.

4(g)Geological Recorder:

Nothing to report.

5.Election of Officers for 2 year term:

Chairman; MD was invited to continue and he accepted. It was then proposed by TG and seconded by CB; 'That all the Officers be re-elected as there were no other nominations.' This was agreed with one abstention (CS).

6. Surveyors Letters:

The letters received by the Secretary were read out. There was then a discussion about these. AF then explained that Stuart France had suggested a possible way forward. Suggestion was that John S and Arthur M meet with two PDCMG nominees and a neutral 'referee'. Discussion on this and how we move forward. CS commented on the exchange of E.Mails. BP pointed out that the surveyors letters had been acknowledged and they were told that discussion would be held at this meeting. ML commented that we would need to clarify what the objective would be of further negotiations. After more discussion it was agreed; 'That ML, IW-J and CS should try and liaise with SF to organise a neutral Chairman and if possible arrange a meeting.' Proposed AF and seconded BP. All agreed.

7. Constitutional Amendment:

Add after 'Conservation Officer' in 4.4. in the Constitution; '--Survey Secretary, Biological Recorder and Geological Recorder.' Noted that these three elected members have been voting as Officers for the last six years and we are therefore regularising the 'status quo'. This was proposed by TG and seconded by CB. This was agreed by all except CS who abstained.

8.Any Other Business:

8(a)Ogof Draenan filming rumour. Noted that the people involved were using TG's film. They had checked facts with the NCA Chairman and also with TG, BL and LM.

8(b)ML to follow up query reference survey information on the website.

9.Date of Next Meeting:

It was decided to hold the meeting again at the Lamb and Fox. Proposed date of 22nd November 2003 at 8pm. Try to arrange food for those who require it.

The meeting closed at 2313 hours.